Not sure how ppl feel about this but I think something needs to be done about it. If body spam when standng is frowned upon then so should body spam on the ground. Its basically the same exact thing. You're spamming the body to kill the stamina except instead of a knockdown you're getting a free pass or submission attempt. Its pretty lame to see someone litterally spam the body without ever attempting at least one shot to the head. Then go for a free sub with a maxed out grappler.

I'm not sure what EA was thinking here in connecting body shots with the stamina but they did and now its being abused. All ppl do on the ground is spam the body to get free moves. Passes and subs are suppose to be earned by getting your opponent to block or parry. That is the way EA intended it but ppl just skip this challenge altogether and spam the body until you CANT deny which is pretty lame IMO. EA put a stamina drain on hook spamming standing and there also needs to be something to regulate the spamming on the ground.

Lets stop the body spamming and turn the ground game into FIGHTS like its suppose to be and not who can kill the other's stamina faster. If you want a sub then you should have to earn it the way EA intended. We should have to mix up the ground strikes. Maybe no more than 2 body shots in a row and then you have to strike at the head before going back to the body. Basically body body head like real life fighters are instructed to sometimes.

If not this then what? We need something. Spamming the body on the ground to get free passes and subs is just as cheap as spamming to the body standing to get a knockdown. Thoughts?

I suggest we test out some ways to avoid the body spam on the ground just like we have ways to counter body spam standing.

The only way to learn how to combat it is to put ourselves in that situation but since none of us want to be in that situation during a real fight, we need to spar and think of methods to combat it. If there are none, then we should look on limiting them.

Just set up some cards during the weekend with Your Mom Taps and Johnyboy since they are the primary grapplers in this league and we'll hash it out.

I totally +1 this whole thread

PREACH, BEE! Let'em KNOW

So glad I dont have to worry about this anymore

The only problem with the game is that it is so strongly based the stamina that it nearly forces you to go there. If the game was more even then maybe it would limited it. Because getting someones head damage down from the ground takes forever. Your almost LnPing but attack the body makes it quicker. But I can see were you are coming from. maybe limiting how many times in a row you can attack the body could fix it but that might anger some people.

Honestly. Let it be. Adding to many rules would get confusing for some.

But if you werent allowed to beat the body on the ground there would be no groundgame to speak of, Anybody orange belt and above knows how to deny passes and submissions, you would literally just be dry humping one another, i personally don't believe spam is an issue on the ground unless maybe they have your stamina at 0 and still decide to beat on your body for the next 20 seconds then maybe its an issue but if you beat on the body then pass or beat the body for submission attempt this is ok but just laying on top of someone and beating away even though they are completely drained, thats just cheesy.

Bee and I tested some things out and the body spam is only a major problem in full guard postured up.

The person on top can drain huge stamina even when someone is blocking. There are some counters to this but it involves having you character have wrist control, armbar, and sub chaining to effectively get out of it.

That being said the guy on the bottom can inflict decent head damage to the guy postured up, so much so that it can drain head health all the way down which gives you an escape. This is what Your Mom Taps does when you get him in this position, he goes for head health and waits for you to block to sink in the triangle. It can be pretty back and forth if both guys have the catch punch but the person on the bottom is able to block head punches normally.

However if your character has poor ground striking and no catch punch, then the position is end game. It's not hard to imagine someone doing this to drain all your stamina and then going for a leg sub.

It's no uber position like mount but it's a good idea to make sure you aren't in that situation to begin with if you aren't playing as a grappling caf.

Well my gripe isnt with certain positions being overpowered. Its the whole concept of spamming the body to kill the stamina for free moves and what I was showing you with full guard postured up is you can kill the stamina more in that position than the other positions.

Like I said EA intended for us to get our opponent to block by striking THEN pass bcuz when you are blocking you cant deny. Thats what EA meant by "strike to pass" but ppl take the easier route and kill your stamina so you CANT deny. I think this stradegy should be eliminated so the ground game can be more realistic and challenging and not a spamfest.

Stam spam for free moves is basically the same as the parry takedown. When someone is good at defending you just skip the challenge and use the cheap way. Body spam is body spam. Just bcuz its on the ground doesnt make it legit. I'm just saying we need to put some rule on the spamming. Force ppl to mix it up and punch to the head too.

Leagues had rules on hook spamming when standing and EA even altered the game to combat it. The same should be done with stam spamming on the ground for free moves. I'm not sure what would be a fair number but something like no more than 2 or 3 body strikes in a row then you have to strike at least once to the head.

well the pass to strike strike to pass concept doesnt work. You cant mask your transitions at all when your facing a experienced ground guy. WHen that happens you have one choice.

I disagree Killa. Here is all the strike layouts for the ground (if anything is missing let me know, but I think I got it all) and as you can see it is already limited.

Guard Closed Top: 1 Head Strike, 2 Body Strikes
Guard Closed Bottom: 2 Head Strikes, 2 Body Strikes
Guard Open Top: 2 Head Strikes, 2 Body Strikes
Guard Open Bottom: 2 Head Strikes
Half Guard Top: 1 Head Strike, 3 Body Strikes
Half Guard Bottom: 2 Head Strikes, 1 Body Strike
Side Control Top: 1 Head Strike, 1 Body Strike
Side Control Bottom: 1 Head Stikre, 1 Body Strike
Mount Closed Top: 2 Head Strikes
Mount Closed Bottom: 2 Body Strikes
Mount Open Top: 4-6 Head Strikes (Depending on ruleset)
Mount Open Bottom: 4 Head Strikes
Back Mount Top: 2 Head Strikes
Back Mount Bottom: 2 Head Strikes
Referee Position Top: 2 Head Strikes
Referee Position Bottom: 2 Head Strikes
Rubber Guard Top: 1 Head Strike
Rubber Guard Bottom: 1 Body Strike

Many positions don't have body shots and the one's that do have body shots use them as the main source of striking. Regulating (AKA limiting) the amount of strikes you can attempt from these positions is unfair. First and foremost, all of these body shots can be parried, nothing is unblockable. Plus how would this work for Rubber Guard or Closed Mount which only offer body shots?

I think people's problem is in HG and SC because of how limited they are already. Side Control only has 2 punches and you want to limit the amount of use from 1 of them? HG only has 4 strikes, 3 of which you plan to limit?

This also destroys the Pass To Strike, Strike To Pass concept. This concept works mainly off of body shots, and regulating body shots on the ground limits most of the ground work.

This also hinders submission artists from finding an opening. Many submission artists drain the stamina as one way to set up a submission, now submission artists can really only look to catch a punch from open, or deny and hope their opponent drains themself, or is a parry fiend.

Also with the limitations on body shots, the next thing I see getting regulated would be head shots from HG Top because many fighters will choose to pound the head because they can't pound the body.

I just don't see any justification to regulate an already limited ground. I would just say work you ass off on parrying and come up with a tactic to avoid these situations.

Just my 2 cents... Not trying to say you guys suck on the ground or anything

BlazedGonzo

You totally missed my point and what I'm asking. I'm not asking to limit the amount of strikes you can deliver. I'm saying ppl should have to mix it up and not just target the body. You shouldnt be able to just spam multiple body shots in a row. If you do this standing it would be considered body spam. How is it different on the ground? Body spam is body spam. Oh and spamming the body isnt the only way to get a move or sub atempt off. Its just the cheapest. You're suppose to strike them (doesnt matter if its to the head or body) to make them try to parry you or block which then gives you the opening. Thats what EA meant by strike to pass. Its not called spam to pass.

Again I'm not trying to put a limit on how many strikes in total you can deliver. You're misunderstanding my arguement. You can throw as many strikes as you like. I'm saying you shouldnt be able to just spam the body non stop. You should have to mix it up and go to the head every now and then. Its the same type of rule other leagues put on hook spamming. You couldnt throw more than 3 hooks in a row. You had to break the combo after 3 hooks or mix another type of strike in there.

It should be the same on the ground. You shouldnt be able to throw more than 3 body shots in a row. You HAVE to go to the head too. Nevermind. It seem ppl dont want fairness, realism or any type of challenge. They just want to win even if its with a cheap stradegy. Thats why some ppl here tried to justify the PTD. Oh well.

Kingdaddydesmin

Werent you saying the same thing as this for the Strikers Challenge league? wait...here is your post.

Kingdaddydesmin wrote:What about if someone is throwing over 385 hooks and in 2 rounds without a single other strike of any sort including other types of punches should this be allowed ?

Goes down as spam in my book, If its a striking league should we not have to mix it up ?, even if it is the occasional jab or straight.

Whats the difference in what I'm sayiing? You think ppl should have to mix it up and not just throw hooks and I think ppl should have to mix it up and not just throw body shots. Again, whats the differecne?

I understand that there is spamming Killa, but I haven't really seen it on the ground. The only time I have seen a person spam HG top body shots, is when the person on bottom is throwing constantly at their head or body.

I find that you can't spam the body ground shots like you can in a standing posititon, it is a lot more difficult. Stamina is drained on both sides of ground regardless of what you are doing, so again I find it is hard to spam the body.

I have seen top ground fights time their body hooks to hit the opposite side of a parry and I would not call that spamming. Considering they are timing, and countering your parry.

Again I understand there is body spamming, but I have never really seen it happen on the ground.

Limiting to 3 body shots is ridiculous. If someone is timing every one of their body shots to counter your parry, or If soomeone times to store their stamina and unload when you try to move and waste some of yours. That is your fault, and not a "cheap" or "spamming" Tactic. (This is hypathetical, not aimed at anyone).

I know there are cheap tactics, but I don't think what you are tring to regulate is one of them.

What I would define as a Spamming tactic, would be beating someones torso to nothing on the ground, then letting them up to tko them with a body shot. I came up with that and I thought I showed you Killa. I laughed because no one had ever thought about it. I would call that cheap, which is why I only did it to the person I was showing and didn't finish the match. Again I thought that was you Killa.

So let me get this str8. You think its cheap to spam someone's torso down so you can get a knockdown but you dont think its cheap for someone to spam someone's stamina down to get free moves/subs? You're also all for a rule that says you can't throw more than 3 hooks in a row standing but against a rule that say you can't throw more than 3 body shots in a row on the ground?

K!LLA B33 wrote:So let me get this str8. You think its cheap to spam someone's torso down so you can get a knockdown but you dont think its cheap for someone to spam someone's stamina down to get free moves/subs? You're also all for a rule that says you can't throw more than 3 hooks in a row standing but against a rule that say you can't throw more than 3 body shots in a row on the ground?

I don't think it is cheap to work stamina for the sake of a transititon or sub attempt. Even IF you drain their stamina, and you get the transititon or the submission attempt, the fight is not over The person having the stamina worked on can reserve their energy and work out of the situation. I have done this exactly in fights for Bushido and have won (Ryan Murray Vs. Gonzo Miller)

Also the reasoning why I am for 3 hook combo rule for standing is because you have a lot more strikes to work with then just a simple hook, while on the ground you are quite limted in comparison. That is why I don't think you should regulate something already so limited Thus Hook spam I agree with, but not this lame body shot from ground regulations.

I don't see how you are confused about my opinion. on that?

Also Draining someone to gain an advantage on ground is not nearly as bad as draining someone's torso, getting off of them to strike them in the body to drop them and going in for a TKO. How do see them as equally bad? I think the torso spam in this aspect is way worse then anything this thread has attempted to use as its arguement.

Also is Rubber Guard now illiegal considering it forces a fighter to only use body shots. What about Mount Closed Bottom Position? I don't think this regulation is going to work for those positions, what then? Make up some other limitation as well?


To me this seems like way to much work to limit something that really isn't that big of a problem.

I'm confused at how you dont see them as the same thing. You are attacking the body in both situations to get an advantage. Standing results in a knockdown and on the ground results in free moves. Its still the exact same concept which is fueled with the exact same intentions by the one spamming.

I'm also confused as to why you keep saying this is "limiting" you on the ground. You're not limited. I'm not saying you have to throw LESS strikes. You can throw as many strikes as you like you just cant throw 3 body shots in a row. More than 3 body shots is considered spamming. You should have to go to the head at least once after every 3 body strikes. Its the exact same concept as the hook spam rule. you're not limited. You just cant spam.

BlazedGonzo wrote:Also Draining someone to gain an advantage on ground is not nearly as bad as draining someone's torso, getting off of them to strike them in the body to drop them and going in for a TKO. How do see them as equally bad? I think the torso spam in this aspect is way worse then anything this thread has attempted to use as its arguement.

I disagree and think its the other way around. Torso draining can result in a knockdown but only if they get up and even then you still get to recover a few times before its a TKO. Stam spamming results in a free sub attempt and if done with a maxed out grappler with 100 subs there is no recovery. Not only that but they can stam spam to gain mount for free and we no there is no recovery for that unless the one on top f's up. Stam spamming is clearly worse and ruins the ground game.

BlazedGonzo wrote:Also is Rubber Guard now illiegal considering it forces a fighter to only use body shots. What about Mount Closed Bottom Position? I don't think this regulation is going to work for those positions, what then? Make up some other limitation as well?

You're being silly now man. You have no choice in those positions and they dont result in fight ending situations. Also, nobody is purposely getting into those positions just to stam spam for free moves. Come on. lol I'm done with this tho. Its a pointless arguement. Especially when you're arguing with someone who uses and tries to justify cheap tactics like PTD. Peace

So let me get this straight. If I disagree with you, I am cheap? I disagreed with the PTD ruling because of information I had heard. Now according to you Killa I use PTD and justify it. Look at my history, the only thing missing in your assumption is any proof. Just like you whole "Gonzo is part of the UFF, and he wants to tear OMMA down" bullshit.

I should start making assumptions about you, to make up for all the shit you throw at me. Are you going to start saying I am spammer now too because I disagree with this stupid ruling.

As for the whole Rubber Guard statements, yes those were out of fun, and to simply split hairs. I knew there was nothing you were going to do with them, I just had to ask to be sure. The only true stupid questions are the ones never asked.

Also the Torso TKO from GNP is worse and easier to do. That is why I say it sahould be a bigger issue then this "Regulations"


You want people to stop hitting the body? Cover your body, Master Takedown D, Learn to Parry anything thrown at you.

And Killa next time you want to question my tactics, bring that crucial thing called proof along with it. Either that, STFU about how I fight.

Ohyea, and with these new regulations, say hello to being in Guard forever. Considering people can exploit the block button, blocking most punches, and can still deny anything. Even that is worse then this, and we have fighters who do this.

Wtf? Sounds like you have a grudge against me and looking for a reason to lash out. lol I didnt call you cheap. You literally put those words in my mouth then lashed back. Is that how you guys do it these days when you dont like someone and want to flame? I just said the truth in you tried to justify PTD which is a cheap tactic. Stam spamming is cheap therefor its pointless arguing wth you about it bcuz you will clearly argue to justify it. and why are you bringing that UFF bullshit from 2009? I never said you wanted to tear OMMA down anyway. Where you get that from? lol You trippin.

K!LLA B33 wrote: Its a pointless arguement. Especially when you're arguing with someone who uses and tries to justify cheap tactics like PTD. Peace

Yep, there's me putting words in your mouth Killa.....

Whatever man. You clearly have you views on me, and try to play dumb about it. My only problems with you, is normally you jump on my balls about anything. Like all the UFF shit, and that only came up in this because of the quote above. You brought up history, so I did as well.

My second problem with you, is this thread was put up as a place to put opinions to decide upon if to put in regulations. I post me opinion stating I disagree and why. Then you attack my opinion claiming I am wrong and I am trying to justfy cheap tactics, and cheap wins. Again I defend my opinion and do nothing more. Then you come back in attacking my opinion again and then stat that because I stated my opinion on PTD, which differed from your I must be a user of PTD. My guess is at this rate, you will think I body spammer too or something else. You did this exact thing in the PTD thread. Attack those who oppose you views and assume they must be using whatever your against to their advantage.

I am only tripping because you act like your opinion and views on right and wrong are god sent, and anyone who disagrees is spat at like we are commiting blasphemy. I am tripping because you can't say my opinion is wrong, or that I am a cheap fighter just because I have different views.

Also why are you in charge of shit like this? I think this should be upto WF, Charles, Ele, and Johnny. All you do is live stream (Which I am not bashing, that is awesome and makes this league like #1.). I understand the opinion thread, for everyone, but still. Your opinion isn't law. I also know mine is not either thus I kept saying. "I don't think", or "just saying". You kept posting like your opinion was final say and it is not.

It seems like you both dont seem to get what the other is saying and its frustrating you both into a arguement so I'm going to lock this before it gets out of hand.