After the recent war regarding ground spamming, i propose to you the community a way to regulate ground body "spamming".

For those of you who follow MMA and i am assuming that's all of you, You will know when the fight has gotten into a situation where the dominant fighter can't or won't pass a guard or attempt to finish the fight for a few minutes they will be sent to their corner.

So how about a similar rule in this league, not saying after a few minutes maybe 30 seconds without advancing position will result in being stood up, I'm not saying it's an exact science but if we could have a few backers and people willing to test it out and give feedback i'm sure we can adjust and adapt it to fit the cards.

Anybody willing to give it a dry run and help work out the specifics just post in here or give your own opinions and critique the idea because its of no concern to me if it is done or not i don't have a problem with the current ground game i'm just brainstorming to try and make the game as fun and as fair as possible.(this is obviously on a trial basis only just to see if the idea is plausible)

This wont work bcuz stam spam can be done in a few seconds. The only way to stop stam spam is to treat it like hook spam standing and limit the amount of body strikes you can throw in a row. I suggested 3 then you have to go to the head at least once before going back to the body. That way stam spammers would still be able to spam they will just have a hurdle to jump in the process. Ppl wont agree tho so lets just say F it and move on.

I am going to avoid an argument here . I am sure you all know my opinion, but what about a comprimise.


I still don't believe that the 3 hook rule is going to control this to the extent you want, and King your idea is cool, but I forsee some issues.
1. There could be some bikkering in regards to fighter a's opinion on time and fighter b's opinion on time.
2. if there is a ref like figure on LBs who regulate this, we might have early stoppages or late even, which could disrypt flow and possibly waste time.
However this is hypothetical, and like you said king needs to be tested so I could even be wrong.

I have an idea of like smart stirking. The idea is simple, but I am not sure how well it would fly. Smart Striking would be a safe gaurd for stamina so bar draining would not be so simple. Simply a fighter who strikes the body Cannot drain their opponent's Stamina bar beyond 50%. Therefore a fighter who is being attacked is not fully screwed, and can still recover. I only see the bottom fighter transitioning while top fighter is striking really being an issue. Testing this would probably give you how many strikes can be done in rapid time (Giving you a regulation similar to Killa's. Might only be 3-5 punches to half or something). This still gives fighters the option of still GNP because they can keep their grounded opponents stamina at 50%, and grounded fighter's can still recover and still have stamina to use.

K!LLA B33 wrote: Ppl wont agree tho so lets just say F it and move on.

Dude, why discourage something you started? Plus I think if this is properly handled, it could make ground fighting more intense. Who knows right? We gotta be open minded. Something I didn't do in the other thread. Let's turn a new page here and start off in a good direction with good imput.

BlazedGonzo wrote:

K!LLA B33 wrote: Ppl wont agree tho so lets just say F it and move on.

Dude, why discourage something you started? Plus I think if this is properly handled, it could make ground fighting more intense. Who knows right? We gotta be open minded. Something I didn't do in the other thread. Let's turn a new page here and start off in a good direction with good imput.

Bcuz it didnt get anywhere. lol

Page turned

I agree with your post tho. My intentions is also to make the ground fighting more intense. Stam spamming is unrealistic and makes the fights look cheesy. lol Its seems I'm really the only one who has a problem with this so I'm just moving on. I'll just use the catch punch and train my half guard D.

I know it's too late but my 2 cents on the matter are that any regulations wouldn't change the real problem and that is that Stamina is life on the ground and it's real easy in the short term to drain it.

The head health is more of a long term drain and is only immediately useful on cafs with 89 chins (wrestlers, BJJs, ect..).

I'm not the best guy on the ground and I've been beaten due to low stamina but I've also used it to win my fights on the ground if it's working. The necessary evil is draining the stamina or being better then the other guy at doing it, when both guys are equal at the stamina drain game, then the head health becomes a bigger deal.

Lately though since everyone is use to people draining all their stamina, I've been waiting for people to start to parry spam or begin to parry cause as soon as the parry animation happens, you get a free pass but to get them to parry I have to get either the stamina lower or the head health lower. It doesn't hurt that the AI is a terrible sparring partner to practice the ground game with (even on legendary, I can beat it anytime with tactics that would never work on a player).



We could house rule something but I say just let it be and petition EA to fix the Stamina (personally I liked the ground game better Pre-patch or if successful parries drained more stamina). I don't see the stamina/body spamming as a balance issue since you can do the same thing right back to them as long as your CAF has max striking power on the ground you should be able to parry some blows and drain their stamina.

I do agree that most people do play the safe game and wait for the stamina to be completely drained but I suspect that's cause the cheesy AI trains us to think that way rather then take a chance and go for a pass. The stamina drain on denying passes and getups is way too high in my opinion when you pair it up with the huge drain strikes can do in certain position, it's too risky to try to pass or sub cause you loose stamina advantage. Now if a successful parry would drain as much stamina as denying a pass, then people would use it more, if the parry is used more, we get more free passes since you can't deny a move when parrying, and if you miss up a pass at least you stand a chance of equalizing the stamina with a parry, it would also make parrying useful in mount again (that's how I would fix it if I worked at EA, since that's the simplest tweak without changing the whole system). The game would be more rock/paper/scissors since the risk vs reward of the moves are equal, as it stands it's too risky to pass since you loose stamina and the guy denying it gains stamina during the animation.

Look as i said previously it aint a perfect science the only real issue in my opinion like bee said is half guard 3 points of body striking to the defenders 1 is a bit over the top , waht about if you can only use the normal ground strikes without toggling to the body does anyone think this may work ? all the attacker would really have is one punch which is easily anticipated along with a knee that when parried does take significant stamina off.

Kingdaddydesmin wrote:Look as i said previously it aint a perfect science the only real issue in my opinion like bee said is half guard 3 points of body striking to the defenders 1 is a bit over the top , waht about if you can only use the normal ground strikes without toggling to the body does anyone think this may work ? all the attacker would really have is one punch which is easily anticipated along with a knee that when parried does take significant stamina off.

that is a bit limiting....

I still say we should focus more on the staminia, rather then the strikes. Some fighters with max ground punching power might be able to gas someone in 3 or less (That should be tested lol) . I think we should focus on how much stamina you can drain, it might seem harder, but in the long run fighters wont find loop holes.

Anyways just a thought

Yea but just limit the half guard and full posture guard now thats a damn spam position

Kingdaddydesmin wrote:Yea but just limit the half guard and full posture guard now thats a damn spam position

I think if stamina drain was governed rather then the strikes. It would let fighters still use any/all strikes. They just cannot Stamin drain. I know it would be hard to govern exactly so we should make lame-mans rules to govern the Stamina attacks so everyone can understand it.
Example Rules
1. No continious striking to the body for the sake of stamina drain. Max 3 body shots in a row, then hit somewhere else
2. If a fighter drains an opponent's stamina beyond 75% by striking the body regularily, the fighters must stand
3. If a fighter drains their own stamina through various means of failed transition attempts, parried strikes, and the possibilty of taking strikes on the ground. The ground struggle continues.


Again this is just rough, and is still up for discussion. I believe that this would be the best and easiest way to regulate body GNP and stamina drain. Hell might make this more realistic. Gassing might not occur till late in fights. It would still be realistic (Considering gassing does happen in MMA, though not as often as this game allows) and I think it might add more of a challenge to stamina use, recovery, and timing.

Thoughts?

I dont know who started this whole debate, or who is petitioning for regulations to the ground game (lol) But wow...... this whole thing is kinda dumb. I've never heard of stam spam on the ground or w/e lol Sounds more like someone just has hard time off of their back and is getting frustrated. Me personally, I mix it up, but some don't. Regardless, if you're good at this game, or at least half good, you should know how to mix block/parry/strike on the ground. I never mind getting taken down, knowing I will be able to (from the bottom/defense) drain my opponents stam and get him in fullguard/triangle choke and /or flip him over/reverse. I don't want to sound cocky, but damn...really? You need to get better at defending on the ground then. Sounds like you parry too much on ground b/c "stam spam" or the draining of the stamina takes much more than a few seconds. That is...unless you're parrying wrong side and panicking. As of late, I've been focusing more on inflicting head damage to my opponent on the ground from offense and defense. It's a goo scare tactic that flusters them and throws them off and it semingly makes the pass/deny window smaller.

If you wanna start complaining and/or regulating strikes on the ground, then I guess we might need to take a look at Stacked, Mount, Clinch, etc etc etc. Theres always goning to be areas some lack skill in, and others find no problem in. THis is one of them....

Anyways, there are my two cents. Do they matter? Prolly not. lol

I say leave well enough alone fight the good fight whatever happens happens whatever it takes to get the W call me a spammer if it's there use it LMAO

Jonnyboy wrote:I say leave well enough alone fight the good fight whatever happens happens whatever it takes to get the W call me a spammer if it's there use it LMAO

This lol

TheThroneIsMine wrote:I dont know who started this whole debate, or who is petitioning for regulations to the ground game (lol) But wow...... this whole thing is kinda dumb. I've never heard of stam spam on the ground or w/e lol Sounds more like someone just has hard time off of their back and is getting frustrated. Me personally, I mix it up, but some don't. Regardless, if you're good at this game, or at least half good, you should know how to mix block/parry/strike on the ground. I never mind getting taken down, knowing I will be able to (from the bottom/defense) drain my opponents stam and get him in fullguard/triangle choke and /or flip him over/reverse. I don't want to sound cocky, but damn...really? You need to get better at defending on the ground then. Sounds like you parry too much on ground b/c "stam spam" or the draining of the stamina takes much more than a few seconds. That is...unless you're parrying wrong side and panicking. As of late, I've been focusing more on inflicting head damage to my opponent on the ground from offense and defense. It's a goo scare tactic that flusters them and throws them off and it semingly makes the pass/deny window smaller.

If you wanna start complaining and/or regulating strikes on the ground, then I guess we might need to take a look at Stacked, Mount, Clinch, etc etc etc. Theres always goning to be areas some lack skill in, and others find no problem in. THis is one of them....

Anyways, there are my two cents. Do they matter? Prolly not. lol

Wow. I definately didnt expect this type of comment from you man. You're a legit fighter and have always been against anything cheap especially spamming. Stam spamming on the ground is the equivalent to body spamming standing. Its a flaw in the system that ppl are exploiting. What I mean is you lose too much stamina when being hit in the body. It is a value mistake by EA. You shouldnt lose that much stamina when getting hit in the body. The cheap fighters use this to their advantage. Some dont even strike the head at all. They simply drill the body until they get the free moves. Lame Ppl need to fight not exploit the weaknesses in the game mechanics.

We simply want realistic and legit fights. Its pretty much the same as you feel about hook spamming. Ppl should earn their moves with timing and outsmarting their opponent. The cheap fighters simply bypass this challenge by stam spamming so the moves are free. EA isnt going to fix this so we're just discussing a way to make the ground game more realitic and challenging instead of this stam spam fest that goes on. My suggestion is to put a hurdle in the mix. By that I mean after 3 strikes to the body you must go to the head at least once before going back to the body. Basically it would lengthen the time it takes to stam spam someone to exhuastion.

With respect I say this...that makes no sense.

If you put a limit on it, say 3, then after 3 body strikes the perosn on bottom can just parry their head next KNOWING that there is now this limiit in place. So if I'm on the bototm in side control and the guy on top is striking my body 3 times, I know the head is next. Also, in half guard, with a 3 strike limit? wow. it take a LOT more tahn three strikes to pass from half guard. Besides, what if theyre blocked? See? 3 strikes while theyre holding block does NOTHING to their stamina and really affects the aggressor more than the guy on bottom, if you're striking him while he is holding block. So, with this 3 strike deal ur trying to impose...would that also pertain to blocked strikes? Regardless, it takes more than 3 strikes to drain stamina (unless guy on bottom already only has 30-50%). Anyone knows this. And if one or two of those 3 strikes are blocked, then what? Nothing was even drained..so why the rule again? This is just too complicated. So what if someone is in fight and accidently goes 4 body shots? uh oh....what if they accidently do it twice?

Anyways, im just saying...I don't know if I could truly compete with such a restriction...wow. I am a very legit fighter and am all for the riddance of exploits, but this is a little extreme. Its all about patterns. If you are lmiited to 3 strikes to body, then you are limited to the amount of patterns/sequences you can do to throw ur opponent off and pass/getup. You'd be stuck with only several very basic and simple patterns. And knees? Knees on the ground (from half) are more powerdul than punches. Is that still 3 strike? Or 2?

Lastly, don't think I dont understand your point of view bro..I do. I know guys that do stuff like that, but its really not hard to get out of. Hold block, parry, strike, etc. I guess I should consider myself lucky that I have no problem at all getting out of bottom on the ground. Anywho, I hear ya and see how thatd make things more interesting (i guess) but that'd be butchering the entire ground game.

Oh and by the way. When someone is in full guard postured up and theyre spamming ur body, just hold block. Thats it. Or, what I do (b/c I do not mind being on alf guard bottom) is purposely attempt a major transition (where you try flipping him over with ur shoulder when he's postured up, but not stacked), knowing he wil deny it, and it automatically puts him in my halfguard instead. Some know this, a lot don't. I ust it all the time, b/c from half guard bottom I work their head health down, push them to full guard and work it more, then i fliip them and KO them from half, side or mount. The whole time mi working their head theyre striking my body usually. Its about timing more than stamina. I can pass guys and transition with less than 50% whilst they still have 75% or more, just based on knowin when theyre going to parry. Sometimes its like a game of chicken. I'm striking from bottom and theyre striking me and we are just whailing on each other and one will eventually try to pass. Your job is to not chicken out, hang in there and deny their transition, leaving them with no stamina (you still on bottom) and know u can pass or getup. The key to passing is using the body to lower their stam of course, but mix in as many head shots as possible without draining ur own stamina too much. This way, after a souple transitions (and/or minutes) on the ground, their head health is low (b/c it regains slower than stam) and it flusters them and makes it easier to KO them from any position. By fluster, i mean...for me anyways, when someone is getting my head health eral low im glancing at it out corner of eye. It poses a distraction and sometimes itll fluster you/tehm so much..BAM..wont even feel the transition. Hard to explain, but...i tried...

Hook/body spamming can be defended yet EA still updated the game concerning it and multiple leagues (including yours) have rules against it. Whats the difference? You're saying since it can be defended that there should be no rule against it. Where is that logic from you when it comes to the hook spam? Body spam standing can result in a easy knockdown. Body spam on the ground can result in free submissions. Body spam is body spam. If you hate it then you should hate it in all of its forms.

This isnt about not being able to defend it. This is about getting rid of all cheap tactics so everyone in the league can have fun legit fights. Just like its sickening to watch someone hook spam across the cage its sickening to watch someone stam spam with the obvious intent to get a free move. Just like you feel ppl should mix up their strikes standing I feel they should do the same on the ground.

Again, some ppl wont throw one single strike to the head when they get you down. They just drill your body until you're gased and cant deny. Its just as lame as someone drilling your body standing to get a knockdown. I dont get why it isnt view as such.

TheThroneIsMine wrote:With respect I say this...that makes no sense.

If you put a limit on it, say 3, then after 3 body strikes the perosn on bottom can just parry their head next KNOWING that there is now this limiit in place. So if I'm on the bototm in side control and the guy on top is striking my body 3 times, I know the head is next.

Exactly! lol Its a perfect punishment for someone who is delibertately trying to stam spam. This forces ppl to mix it up. Its the same exact thing as the stamina loss when striking too much standing. You are basically forced to limit your combos or suffer the punishment of being gased. In the case of the stam spam rule, its the same type of punishment but much less as it can only result in being parried once which if you were able to drop their stamina with those 3 shots getting your 4th parried wont really hurt the progress you made. Like I said its basically just a hurdle for those who intend to use the stam spam stradegy.

TheThroneIsMine wrote:Also, in half guard, with a 3 strike limit? wow. it take a LOT more tahn three strikes to pass from half guard. Besides, what if theyre blocked? See? 3 strikes while theyre holding block does NOTHING to their stamina and really affects the aggressor more than the guy on bottom, if you're striking him while he is holding block. So, with this 3 strike deal ur trying to impose...would that also pertain to blocked strikes? Regardless, it takes more than 3 strikes to drain stamina (unless guy on bottom already only has 30-50%). Anyone knows this. And if one or two of those 3 strikes are blocked, then what? Nothing was even drained..so why the rule again? This is just too complicated. So what if someone is in fight and accidently goes 4 body shots? uh oh....what if they accidently do it twice?

Anyways, im just saying...I don't know if I could truly compete with such a restriction...wow. I am a very legit fighter and am all for the riddance of exploits, but this is a little extreme. Its all about patterns. If you are lmiited to 3 strikes to body, then you are limited to the amount of patterns/sequences you can do to throw ur opponent off and pass/getup. You'd be stuck with only several very basic and simple patterns. And knees? Knees on the ground (from half) are more powerdul than punches. Is that still 3 strike? Or 2?

Lastly, don't think I dont understand your point of view bro..I do. I know guys that do stuff like that, but its really not hard to get out of. Hold block, parry, strike, etc. I guess I should consider myself lucky that I have no problem at all getting out of bottom on the ground. Anywho, I hear ya and see how thatd make things more interesting (i guess) but that'd be butchering the entire ground game.

This sounds like you'r defending the stam spam stradegy as if its needed or something. Limited patterns?

Body, head, body, head
Body, head, body, body
Body, head, head, body
Body, body, head, body
Body, body, head, head
Head, body, head, body
Head, body, head, head
Head, body, body, head
Head, head, body, head
Head, head, body, body

You dont HAVE to throw 4 body strikes in a row man come on. lol This rule will only affect those who purposely look to use the stam spam stadegy. If we're gonna frown upon spamming then we should frown upon ALL spamming. You cant say one type of spamming isnt ok but the other is. Thats a double standard. Not directing this towards you. Just speaking in general as I've heard multiple ppl say this.

Regardless, it doesnt seem like anything will be done since not enuf ppl are against it so this discussions is pointless now and I will conceded. I've only seen one or two ppl do it here (sadly one is in my camp ) so its not really a big problem. Hopefully that number stays low. Anyway, good discussion guys. Peace

K!LLA B33 wrote:Hook/body spamming can be defended yet EA still updated the game concerning it and multiple leagues (including yours) have rules against it. Whats the difference? You're saying since it can be defended that there should be no rule against it. Where is that logic from you when it comes to the hook spam? Body spam standing can result in a easy knockdown. Body spam on the ground can result in free submissions. Body spam is body spam. If you hate it then you should hate it in all of its forms.

This isnt about not being able to defend it. This is about getting rid of all cheap tactics so everyone in the league can have fun legit fights. Just like its sickening to watch someone hook spam across the cage its sickening to watch someone stam spam with the obvious intent to get a free move. Just like you feel ppl should mix up their strikes standing I feel they should do the same on the ground.

Again, some ppl wont throw one single strike to the head when they get you down. They just drill your body until you're gased and cant deny. Its just as lame as someone drilling your body standing to get a knockdown. I dont get why it isnt view as such.

TheThroneIsMine wrote:With respect I say this...that makes no sense.

If you put a limit on it, say 3, then after 3 body strikes the perosn on bottom can just parry their head next KNOWING that there is now this limiit in place. So if I'm on the bototm in side control and the guy on top is striking my body 3 times, I know the head is next.

Exactly! lol Its a perfect punishment for someone who is delibertately trying to stam spam. This forces ppl to mix it up. Its the same exact thing as the stamina loss when striking too much standing. You are basically forced to limit your combos or suffer the punishment of being gased. In the case of the stam spam rule, its the same type of punishment but much less as it can only result in being parried once which if you were able to drop their stamina with those 3 shots getting your 4th parried wont really hurt the progress you made. Like I said its basically just a hurdle for those who intend to use the stam spam stradegy.

TheThroneIsMine wrote:Also, in half guard, with a 3 strike limit? wow. it take a LOT more tahn three strikes to pass from half guard. Besides, what if theyre blocked? See? 3 strikes while theyre holding block does NOTHING to their stamina and really affects the aggressor more than the guy on bottom, if you're striking him while he is holding block. So, with this 3 strike deal ur trying to impose...would that also pertain to blocked strikes? Regardless, it takes more than 3 strikes to drain stamina (unless guy on bottom already only has 30-50%). Anyone knows this. And if one or two of those 3 strikes are blocked, then what? Nothing was even drained..so why the rule again? This is just too complicated. So what if someone is in fight and accidently goes 4 body shots? uh oh....what if they accidently do it twice?

Anyways, im just saying...I don't know if I could truly compete with such a restriction...wow. I am a very legit fighter and am all for the riddance of exploits, but this is a little extreme. Its all about patterns. If you are lmiited to 3 strikes to body, then you are limited to the amount of patterns/sequences you can do to throw ur opponent off and pass/getup. You'd be stuck with only several very basic and simple patterns. And knees? Knees on the ground (from half) are more powerdul than punches. Is that still 3 strike? Or 2?

Lastly, don't think I dont understand your point of view bro..I do. I know guys that do stuff like that, but its really not hard to get out of. Hold block, parry, strike, etc. I guess I should consider myself lucky that I have no problem at all getting out of bottom on the ground. Anywho, I hear ya and see how thatd make things more interesting (i guess) but that'd be butchering the entire ground game.

This sounds like you'r defending the stam spam stradegy as if its needed or something. Limited patterns?

Body, head, body, head
Body, head, body, body
Body, head, head, body
Body, body, head, body
Body, body, head, head
Head, body, head, body
Head, body, head, head
Head, body, body, head
Head, head, body, head
Head, head, body, body

You dont HAVE to throw 4 body strikes in a row man come on. lol This rule will only affect those who purposely look to use the stam spam stadegy. If we're gonna frown upon spamming then we should frown upon ALL spamming. You cant say one type of spamming isnt ok but the other is. Thats a double standard. Not directing this towards you. Just speaking in general as I've heard multiple ppl say this.

Regardless, it doesnt seem like anything will be done since not enuf ppl are against it so this discussions is pointless now and I will conceded. I've only seen one or two ppl do it here (sadly one is in my camp ) so its not really a big problem. Hopefully that number stays low. Anyway, good discussion guys. Peace

Wow...long read.

Anyways, it's whatever. Not my call. I"m just lookin' out for the league as a whole, and if there are only one or two known culprits, it's not fair to completely butcher the ground game for the other 95% of the guys in the league.